Empire Avenue Spam v Empire Avenue Engagement- Who Wins?

Great article Caleb. Will read in depth when I get five. Kindest,Baz (LUBS)

Thanks Barry! 

I like your focus on re-educating and redeeming rather than banishing spammers.  I have to say though that Empire Avenue kind of encourages spam– at least in terms of content creation.   IMHO,  one of the tricks for doing well,  particularly if you don’t already have huge followings across multiple networks is to find a way that you can create what EAv will regard as 20 or 30 blog posts each day, in such a way that neither takes up an inordinate amount of your time nor strikes any of your audience as spammish.    It’s not an easy trick,  but it can be done.   And it works wonders on your share price.

Hi Alan- thanks for the comment. Re-education and redeeming makes a wonderful difference- none of us are perfect. 

I agree – there’s been a lot of talk about ways that people would set up multiple blogs and RSS feeds in order to automate blog posts. Empire Avenue team worked on this by clarifying what is a blog- eg Quora isn’t a blog. But still this activity continues in different formats. It may be old posts re-published or just publishing the same content over multiple blogs. Or RSS feeds into a blog to get more posts created. Is this content spam? Some would certainly so. I understand the driver for people doing this, but I think it creates more noise. In fact I’ve come across a few conversations where some feel that this action demotivates others from participating. What do you think Alan (and others)? Is it acceptable, a loophole that one can take advantage of to grow their dividends and share price, or something that should be changed by the Development time (when they have time in their busy programming schedule). 

Ok, this might be long and I hate to write but..  I have read many articles about EA, what it is and how to use it, but I must say this article right here… is the best one yet!  The tone of which it was written in, is so sincere  and to play off the movie “Show Me The Money”  you had me at that first photo, a picture is worth a 1,000 words.

As of two days ago, I was saying I’m a newbie.. can’t say that anymore.. this is my 20th day on the Avenue and I am now CEO.  So how did this happen and so fast?  Never once did I ask anyone to “buy me, buy my shares, etc”  I looked for people to invest in, people I thought were interesting and (this is important) I continued doing what I do, on my social networks.. simple.  That is what I believe attracted others to invest in me.  

In addition, in the past 20 days, I’ve meet some very interesting people, gained some valuable tips, not on investing, but on things that I have an interest in, and I’ve learned a few things along the way. You may say EmpireAvenue is a game, but I say EmpireAvenue is in a Game Format, but it’s not a game… it’s much more than a game that has a lot of value… so much potential and this is just the beginning. 

EmpireAvenue is designed in a “fun” format, you ought to be having fun, meeting people, telling jokes, making eaves… spending eaves.. which is my favorite, while at the same time, establishing your personal brand on the internet.  That’s the value of EmpireAvenue in my opinion.  

Oh thanks Pastor Aminata- what a lovely, warm and strongly worded case for all that is good about Empire Avenue. Agree 100% with all that you’ve written and think you’ve nailed the essence of the Avenue. 

If we get too hung up on it being a game alone, we miss the real nuggets that can be found by engaging, having fun, meeting people and going about our social activity through Empire Avenue. I remember a quote, (but sorry can’t for the life of me remember who said it recently- wasn’t me)- and it went something along the lines of:Empire Avenue is as much only a game, as Twitter is only a micro-blogging site.  

The game is great but for the very reasons you mention, and that it acts as a springboard to move through the game into interaction. 

Congrats on the CEO- but more importantly congrats for outworking what’s so great about social media. You’re great. Consider me one of your long term investors :)

Oh thanks Pastor Aminata- what a lovely, warm and strongly worded case for all that is good about Empire Avenue. Agree 100% with all that you’ve written and think you’ve nailed the essence of the Avenue. 

If we get too hung up on it being a game alone, we miss the real nuggets that can be found by engaging, having fun, meeting people and going about our social activity through Empire Avenue. I remember a quote, (but sorry can’t for the life of me remember who said it recently- wasn’t me)- and it went something along the lines of:Empire Avenue is as much only a game, as Twitter is only a micro-blogging site.  

The game is great but for the very reasons you mention, and that it acts as a springboard to move through the game into interaction. 

Congrats on the CEO- but more importantly congrats for outworking what’s so great about social media. You’re great. Consider me one of your long term investors :)

Hi Caleb, great stuff and thank you!! 

I’ll certainly promote this on StumbleUpon, Digg etc because it is a quality article.

I do send people links to my blog & YouTube Empire Avenue links because I consider it both relevant and offers people a chance to see what they’re really investing into. I have worried in case some may call it spam, but it isn’t really.

The buy me, buy me brigade are around and they’re best ignored!

I work hard at maintaining my price and I love the networking experience here in Empire Avenue, I’ve met some amazing people and the positive momentum continues.

I love you spam photo, can I use it??

Good work, thanks a lot, best regards, Peter 

Love it! Really great post! Thank you!

I love the idea of a spammers’ directory (!) but sadly it would be bordering on impossible to keep up to date as many of the spammers change accounts so quickly. I hope Empire Avenue will teach some folk how to behave online, but I think it’s unlikely unless it is spelled out in monosyllables to some of them!! 

Thanks for being a moderator. The chat rooms are going to suffer for a long time yet but there is some good self-policing going on, which does show that the spammers are a minority, and the chat and community discussions are beginning to evolve so they become valuable. It seems there are many of us who are using Eav not as a game but as an opportunity to broaden our networks and horizons. I’ve found some fascinating stuff through Eavers now and my daily read list is growing each time I buy more shares! Thanks for the post. 

Alan and anyone else reading this, creating 20-30 blog posts a day does not make a difference in the system. Believe me, I know this :) All it does is make it *look* like you are super active when someone goes to your page. You get no more earnings (as we say in a recent blog post, earnings are capped), and it has no effect on your share price. We taking spamming into account as much as possible! In fact, we made blogs worth less than it was before for this very reason.

And thank you CALEB for your great article as always!

Thanks for spreading the love and for the encouragement. I’ve enjoyed reading your blogs, and I think it helps the conversation going. Your posting those is not spamming- the content is enjoyable!  

I think listening makes the big difference – that’s where the conversations get interesting. For the photo- drop me your email (calebstorkey@gmail.com) and I’ll forward on the details. Look forward to connecting further Peter and keep up the good work. All the best, Caleb

Thanks a lot! Kind of you to say :)

See http://www.empireavenue.com/AMANDAHILL. She’s got one set up. 

It’s a pleasure being a moderator and I think the culture will grow wonderful Lindsey- as we all wade in there to have great conversations a positive culture is set! Look forward to connecting further :) 

Personally,  I think anything that is automated is pretty much necessarily spam.   I also see lots of stuff on Tumblr that appears to me more like IM conversations than blog posts and I would generally consider that to be spam as well.   There are a number of folks  (some of whom do very well on Empire Avenue) who have Tumblr blogs that are all about re-blogging other people’s pictures.   I actually subscribe to a number of these folks,  because the pictures are often quite striking and I like looking at them.   The picture re-blogger is one example of how folks can create a lot of content without coming across as spam.   It seems to the test is what your audience accepts.

Thanks Dups- That’s good to know- I think a lot of people have been concerned about how much of the Golden Juice was affected by multiple blogs…  This will no doubt help clarify the picture a lot! 

A pleasure to write about something so exciting :)

Thank you for recognizing the wisdom of a gentle hand. The Empire Avenue site is very complex and confusing and overwhelming for newcomers. Most drop out quickly, especially if nobody else in their own local or personal network is participating in the game. I am not in favour of booting out newcomers instantly especially as long as the distinction between introducing your stock, providing a link to your ticker (since the chat does not like your name to your ticker and Empire Avenue’s search function sucks), driving by just to say “buy me” and spending a few seconds to brag about your stats in either one message or over several is not very clear. Why should unknowing newcomers who are simply marketing their stock as the Empire Avenue encourages you to do with the official “promote your profile” button be penalized and treated harshly by chat members and newly created moderators in chat rooms and communities that have no written rules or policy guidelines?

I think it’s a great idea to cap earnings to account for spamming but am curious to know how that might affect those of us who are legitimate avid tweeters, for example?

You’re right Pundit- good communication is needed and this is in process! It’s a tough job being a newbie when you don’t know what’s acceptable or appropriate. I know this from when I was a newbie, and no one likes being told off when they don’t know what’s needed…. 

Equal grace needs to be shown to mods who are working hard to try and get good conversations happen in rooms…. It’s a challenge for all. 

There’s some work that’s been done by the EA team to help clarify this communication and I think this will be communicated in the next few days. So do not fear, we’ll all have a clearer song sheet to sing from…..

To be honest Pundit- it’s a great problem to have. Empire Avenue is growing, growing, growing. As the famous lyrics from the film Greece said….

We grow together….

Ok that was really bad…. :)

Thanks for your comment and contribution Pundit…..

Great post Caleb  - I completely 200% ! Folks that merely broadcast and blast updates on everything under the sun are incredibly annoying.

It’s all about being targeted, being informative and also about engagement.

I am still new to Empire Avenue but so far, so good.  I am finding it a GREAT place to meet new people who are also interested in my niche.  You bring up great points!  I have seen the “buy me” spam and it’s very annoying.  I just placed my first ad this morning and am testing the water with it.  It’s not an ego thing but a “connect with me” thing.  At least, that is my hope.

Yes, it is a great problem to have. :-) You reminded me of something (e) Girlfriend said. This is a sudden growth spurt and it’s a very small team so the chat and community areas might not be a top priority right now, I guess. I just feel bad for newcomers or anyone else who doesn’t know the rules since there aren’t any yet! :-)

Well said, the spamming annoys me intensely.  I understand there may be a limited place for light spamming but Empire Avenue encourages far too much spamming and I don’t think the spammers are really getting what social networking is about.  What is the point of asking people to click on your button and you click on their button afterwards. It makes no sense.

Thanks Pundit. Good point. It’s true that there is a strong growth spurt and the team is very small and so therefore there’s a lot going on. They’re doing an incredible job and I think all the energy we can collectively put into seeing how we can improve things with them, means when we all take responsibility, we all benefit.  

What rules would you like? Consider adding your thoughts and emailing them to Brad Grier- a very approachable guy, and always keen to get the input of the community to help shape things up. Write them to him and bring forward suggestions as to what Empire Avenue could bring. We all get to benefit from each other’s wisdom, and you’ve got some great points to make, so would love to encourage you to pass them on to him :)

From conversation, I know the chat and community is something that the team are looking at. Whatsmore there is a lot of thought being put in to clarify chat moderation and best manners of communication. It’s tough to get the cultural vibe right and we’re all learning on our feet, and in the main doing a great job. Sorry to hear of the situation with a moderator you found hard- moderation has it’s challenges, and we all need to learn to grow in our communication. We will make mistakes, but with kind encouragements help and challenge us to be better. 

Thanks for your comments- and please do help shape chat and community. I’ve got involved because like yourself I’m passionate about Empire Avenue and longing to see the best version of it be a part of our lives. I love the way that it brings me into contact with great people. Spam can be a challenge, or obstacle in that sometimes, and good helpful clear ways of going forward will help us all. 

Empire Avenue remains the most beautiful relational space for me, and I know for many :) Big loves Pundit :)

Thanks for your comment James, appreciate you getting stuck in. Buy me at (e)CALEB. 

Whoops! Not sure what happened there- I think my alter ego took over…. 

It’s true – it’s good to be informative, targeted and engage with others. I appreciate your tweet and look forward to connecting with you more. But do spare a thought for my alter ego and those of us who are still having to detox from a world where spam is routine…. It’s a hard one to let go of. 

I can see SA (Spammers Anonymous) meetings. It’s been 18 hours since my last spam :)

And as @PunditCommentator:disqus points out, we’re all still working out what spam is on Empire Avenue. Keep in touch James, and thanks again :)

Martha- we’re all a little egotistical I think. You may manage to avoid that, and if so what’s your secret, but I’m sure it’s in me. I love Scoble’s direct honest about this in his first blog on Empire Avenue. However much, I’d love my motives to be simple, I’m complex. I want people to read my blog, so I post it up in different places. I want you to connect again, and get stuck into conversations so I respond with this rather long winded essay on ego! (Maybe a – ‘Martha- you rock. Love the smile would have been better!’- Oops)

However, sometimes ego and being known, connecting and communicating are so closely linked. Does a musician have ego? Quite often. Is it always wrong? Well that’s an interesting question. I read a book recently, exploring the ways we speak to an imaginary audience, and live our lives out before an imaginary audience. Some interesting ideas there, and one to be saved for another time. 

So whether it’s an ego thing, or a connect with me, the fact that you are keen to engage is what matters for me. Thanks for the comment. And I for one, am very pleased to connect with you, will come and buy some shares of yours, and hope to interact further.

Oh and by the way- great smile ;) 

Thanks for the comment Harry. Otherwise known as ‘I’ll click yours if you click mine!’ 

Look forward to connecting further :)

Busted! @9b6c2e65e4f11dbecbf355472a65aa33:disqus I confess. It was me, in the coffee room, with my Tumblr account. Uploading photos. Then uploading text. I can’t deny it any longer- it’s making me sick with worry. 

I think you raise a cracker here, and I feel challenged. You see I love to diary- random thoughts that come into my head. I find that when I write a blog post, it ends up being far too long and normally takes me best part of a day or two to write…. But I can write a Tumblr in a matter of 5 minutes, and it feels great to get something out of me in the moment. 

So I love to throw out thoughts, experiences, and photos on Tumblr. I treat it as a halfway house between a big blog and a facebook update. I love to journal, and express ideas, but it’s only been since Empire Avenue that I’ve done it publicly. So what’s the motivation going on there- part expression, part point scoring. I tend to do about 3-6 a day….

I like that your point is that the test is what your audience accepts. And the truth is, I’ve a very small audience there, as I’ve kept it for private use. So if you’d be so kind and be my judge- letting me know what you think. Am I spamming?

http://calebstorkey.tumblr.com 

Also when I’m in Twitter chat rooms- that are hosted so well by Michael Q Todd- I know I’m racking up a few tweets by being in the conversation. I love the chat, but I’m also pleased that it’s upping my tweet activity. 

So I think, the Spam issue, you delicately raise- is that spam is more subtle than we realise! Thanks for your input there Alan. Great room for thought…. :)

Hi Caleb,
Weekly I agree with you ;-)
‘Bot’ & inactive twitter followers are near worthless.
Self promotion can be great in a spam room,
to measure up your claims and increase their efficacy.

For those who are good at running markets and defending claims,
or willing to share knowledge of how to replicate gains :-).

If a conversation is what you are after,
either use the private chat, post comments, or pop-out the chat box!
The steady stream means you need to stay in the room,
to continually remain at the base of the box.

I agree with all your well made points, but what is really good…
going one week of quality interaction, then one week of spam.
Caleb knows, as do most of you,..average over the two weeks.
Your quality contacts will see their price really rise one week,
ready for a top up when u interact and raise media value the next!

Plus, the other room regulars can see how you are doing that day,
and make you explain why they shouldn’t sell when u are doing badly, maybe.

Plus if they spam alot, they will likely rise up quickly then level ready to sell,
better yet, balance things when it’s in your favour.

My thoughts on spam?…

* 50.22 | +1.6 | +15week | Divs catching up/*/
http://www.empireavenue.com/imworthit/graphs
* 50.22 | +1.6 | +15week | Divs catching up/*/
http://www.empireavenue.com/imworthit/graphs
* 50.22 | +1.6 | +15week | Divs catching up/*/
http://www.empireavenue.com/imworthit/graphs
* 50.22 | +1.6 | +15week | Divs catching up/*/
http://www.empireavenue.com/imworthit/graphs
* 50.22 | +1.6 | +15week | Divs catching up/*/
http://www.empireavenue.com/imworthit/graphs

Cheers (e)CALEB,
@StefanLaity:disqus

Wow! I am blown away by this article Caleb! You have made such a strong case without being too damning of those of us guilty ones who have still a lot to learn in the online social networking field. I am still in the group who still haven’t gelled with EA yet but your comments make me want to persevere. There must be lots I’m missing. EA is so brilliant for connecting but my interaction is more off EA than on – in others spaces such as Quora, LinkedIn and of course Facebook. Oh, and also brilliant blogs like this! What EA is also encouraging me to do is connect properly with peeps on Twitter – I’m sure I’m not the only one in that boat. Thanks for a really thought provoking piece – beautifully crafted and wonderfully illustrated!

Wow! I am blown away by this article Caleb! You have made such a strong case without being too damning of those of us guilty ones who have still a lot to learn in the online social networking field. I am still in the group who still haven’t gelled with EA yet but your comments make me want to persevere. There must be lots I’m missing. EA is so brilliant for connecting but my interaction is more off EA than on – in others spaces such as Quora, LinkedIn and of course Facebook. Oh, and also brilliant blogs like this! What EA is also encouraging me to do is connect properly with peeps on Twitter – I’m sure I’m not the only one in that boat. Thanks for a really thought provoking piece – beautifully crafted and wonderfully illustrated!

Wow! I am blown away by this article Caleb! You have made such a strong case without being too damning of those of us guilty ones who have still a lot to learn in the online social networking field. I am still in the group who still haven’t gelled with EA yet but your comments make me want to persevere. There must be lots I’m missing. EA is so brilliant for connecting but my interaction is more off EA than on – in others spaces such as Quora, LinkedIn and of course Facebook. Oh, and also brilliant blogs like this! What EA is also encouraging me to do is connect properly with peeps on Twitter – I’m sure I’m not the only one in that boat. Thanks for a really thought provoking piece – beautifully crafted and wonderfully illustrated!

Ooo la la..what a GREAT article!!! Thank you, Caleb.

“My father always used to say that when you die, if you’ve got five real friends, then you’ve had a great life.” ~Lee Iacocca

Ishak- love the quote. It’s very true….. very easy to have lots of connections and associates, but wonderful friends are so much more important.

Thanks for the contribution Ishak.

Thanks Sue- please do persevere. You have a lot to share with us all. I know a number of people who have stepped on to the shores of Empire Avenue only to feel a little baffled and confused by the view, and then have walked away disappointed. If only they’d gone through the learning curve, and found the gems need to be looked for.

People are the gems and EA is the most incredible way to meet new folk. Like really human people, not automated social media profiles.

Friend me on FB and I’ll introduce you to socialempire. That was an incredible place of connection for me.

Being off EA on other networks is essential. Whilst EA gets up to speed with the features, commununity, chat etc, it will become even more stickable on the site. But I love the concept of what I call the multi layered conversation. EA is the special sauce that initially starts people meeting, and then they connect on all the different platforms. This naturally continues to have an influence on their success on EA, and enable further connections, and thus it continues.

To quote a song- It’s the Circle of Life…..

Well I’m sure there’s a little more to life, but it’s a start eh!

Thanks for your comment Stefan and adding your views and opinions in.

I went down to the spam chat room to get some alternative perspectives and I’m grateful that you’ve entered into the conversation to give your view….

I understand your argument as to why you’d consider it good to do a week on and a week off spamming, but although I understand it, I don’t think it’s the best approach.

Why? Well for me it’s a question of starting and asking what is your Empire Avenue strategy- everyone’s is different and I wont be so presumptious to think I know yours.

I agree that in the short term self promotion in chat rooms can seem to have benefits by seeing your share price rise. And although that’s a goal, that’s not my primary goal by any means. I think there’s better ways to both rise your share price, and achieve other Empire Avenue goals. You may have noticed that a lot of the top players, don’t have a lot of spam action going on.

I think putting the time and energy into creating good content, engaging in interesting conversations and connecting with those who are into this longer term is more important than focusing on ‘buy me’ chat room. Scoble has made a few repeated points in his newsletter that the game element will wear off, and then what are you left with. I’d agree. I want to make some significant connections and build up a network of people I can serve and help, who in due course will open up doors for me.

Whatsmore there will come a time when people are focusing more energy on the chat room and not as much on good content and interactions through social networks- that you miss out on growing your divs, or hearing where interesting people are connecting. The dividends are essential if shareholders are going to hold on to us…… I know you’ve got content going out on other platforms, but you could grow and improve that no doubt.

I agree that regular ‘buy me’ room viewers can see how you’re doing that day- and even that within itself is a small regular little community. But I think you would benefit far more from being connected to a wider group of people, who champion you on, not purely based on what’s going on with your shares but because they believe in you as a person…

So I’m not against the occasional –
‘Hey would love you to help me tip 100 share price’ OR
‘Just been on holiday, please help my share price falling’

But to base a significant part of your strategy (ie week on) on the ‘buy me’ chat room has it’s limitations, and I for one would like to see you do well.

Stefan- thanks for sharing your views, and please do keep me posted as to how things progress for you on EA! And let me know of the other goals you have above and beyond raising your share price on EA, and I’d be delighted to see if I can help.

Take care and thanks again :)

What a nice reply.
Caleb; My strategy has two principles (atm!).:
1. Spam when winning to double gains made.
2. Spam only if you can match every investor.

1) A great day can get a whole lot better!
2) If you raise you price by 10 points (in a week ish:-), from when quality people bought you,
yes, your ratio will be lower, but, dividends per share still higher that when they bought you!

If someone sells for a bad ratio, when their getting more per share than they paid for it,
good riddance! Il take my investment back thankyou kindly :) …
Im sure one of my many quality-contacts will appreciate the extra buy,
afterall, its hard to collect all the top stocks at once is’nt it?

I want to be a useful and thoughtful contributer,
but I also want those types of people to be at the top.
If ‘spam rings’ get out of control they will lead.
O gawd I sound like a politician getting all grass-roots.

I want to dilute the distinction between great content and, great spam.
Inane (but useful and important) [Thanks] comments, demonstrate many qualities,
however, when the chat is not ‘sponsored’, to generate value from it is perhaps more successful?
Eg. CALEB enters chat (and spams) IMWORTHIT endorses caleb’s spam;
another spammer posts and is badmouthed, for lies or selling etc.
This shows if bought you will have your spam encouraged and is helpful.
After-all, spam room forms a regular community too. “oh, you’re here, hi! who buys?”

And if you get too close to a spammy kid who happens to be doing well,
Just block them to have all shares removed! (I just do this on twitter,
not on EAv yet, but this is my contingency plan, sort-of so-far type-thing.

Either way, everything has a place, a time, and a tipping point :-)
Following up with unexpected and new interactions will always rule,
but if the spam boat sinks or sails away won’t you be sad you missed it?

All the Best!
Stef

[...] Storkey, an active member of Empire Avenue, addressed this very issue in a blog entitled, “Empire Avenue Spam v. Empire Avenue Engagement – Who Wins?” In the article, he makes the following argument, “Build you[r] social media [...]